Sophie Mackintosh on Writing Taboo Subjects and Cultivating a Voice In Her Infidelity Novel, Permanence

Sophie Mackintosh has been a gem on the UK literary scene ever since the release of her 2018 debut The Water Cure; the novel was nominated for the Booker Prize when she was only in her late twenties. What’s perhaps most exciting about Mackintosh’s writing career, however, is that in a publishing world doggedly fixated by debuts, she continues to delight with her signature style and distinctive speculative worlds.

Permanence, her latest novel, is one of her sharpest yet - proof that a writer’s career only becomes more interesting to witness as time progresses. Not to mention that with a recent influx of adultery novels, we can trust in Mackintosh to give a familiar premise her own, original spin.

The novel begins as lovers Clara and Francis wake up in an unfamiliar city coined “the city of impermanence”; here, they quickly discover that everyone is (like them) an adulterer. Before long, the couple is shuttled between their real worlds and the city which at first seems a blue-skied paradise. As the novel unfolds, the city’s gardens start to wither, and it - along with the couple’s relationship - devolves into something less idyll.

Sophie and I speak on a brisk spring day from opposite sides of London. I’m struck by her humility and authenticity when she talks about her work and achievements. We also discuss writing taboo subjects, setting the terms and conditions for her speculative worlds, and advice she’d give to her younger self.

PERMANENCE is your fourth novel! Does publication get easier?

It’s obviously different, but there are still feelings that don't go away. It’s still amazing to see the book in the shops. There's still that nervousness before it comes out, the hope that people will respond to it, the hope it will be reviewed. I never take it for granted; I don't ever want to be complacent. I never want to lose that sense of wonder.

Tell me a bit about the novel’s evolution

I knew very early that I wanted to write a love story, but it was a process of iteration. There was never a lightning bolt moment, but I was thinking a lot about a relationship as a physical space. Then I just started thinking: ‘What if a relationship is a city, or, what would a literal manifestation of relationship look like?’ And then I started thinking about secret relationships, and that led me to affairs. It really fit the setting of an alternate world.

Speaking of alternate worlds, you’re so adept at writing these skewered stories governed by their own logic. How did you go about setting the rules for the “city of impermanence”?

It's always a fluid process for me. And with Permanence, it was quite easy, because I was thinking about a relationship and very familiar territory. Clara and Francis cannot walk or be apart from each other without physical pain in the “city of impermanence”. Francis is not able to remove his wedding ring. I was thinking about writing literal manifestations of the conditions we put on other people in relationships and affairs, the harm we cause other people, but also the joy we give to other people, too.

There are these moments when Clara and Francis remark on all the things they can do in the “city of impermanence” that they can’t do in the real world, like go to parties together

There is a real uncanniness to an affair - a relationship that no one else knows about. All the everyday moments that haven't been witnessed before. It turns something very ordinary into something quite strange. Clara and Francis have to believe in their relationship very hard, because they're not typically allowed any physical proof.

You write desire so convincingly in this novel

I think about desire as a gravitational force. I think everyone, even if not pertaining to an affair, can relate to the idea of wanting someone so badly that it feels like you’re tapping into the universe. But also, the flip side of this is feeling so discarded, or giving so much to someone who is not giving much in return. This concurrence of desire can be so powerful.

Did any novels inspire you as you were writing Permanence? I couldn’t help but think of Annie Ernaux’s Simple Passion

Simple Passion is like the Bible of affairs. I love that novel so much. It captures the banality of waiting in affairs so well. And the magical thinking of affairs, too. This idea like: “If I don't step on the cracks, I'll be rewarded.” That was something I really wanted to capture. The compulsive side of longing, and again, the uncanniness of magical thinking.

There’s a painting that reoccurs in the novel—Still Life with Cherries and Mouse. Clara and Francis meet for the first time in front of it. What purpose does the painting serve in the novel?

I wanted them to have a portal, something that would link the two worlds. I also wanted the painting to mean a lot to them, but not necessarily mean a whole lot objectively, or to others who observe it. And beyond that, it's just a beautiful object. As a couple, Clara and Francis have these votive objects which they cling to and which are also tiny portals in the absence of proof of their relationship. The painting also provides a visual clue as to how the relationship is doing.

Your writing commonly deals with the patriarchy and feminism. Were you thinking about it here?

It wasn't so explicitly on my mind this time, but traditional power structures are definitely in there. Francis is older and more settled. Clara is younger and freer. I was thinking a lot about class and lifestyle. Clara is much more precarious than Francis, and maybe also envying - not just Francis’s power, but his security as well. My characters are always very desiring as you said. You can't untangle desire from patriarchy.

Do you write every day?

I try to write every day. I'm working on a novel now. If I'm not working on a novel, I work on a short story or an essay. I love writing in the morning. I'm very much a writer who has to throw it all at the wall and then revise. I'm a very messy writer. I have to feel my way through something to see if it's good. I don't know if something's going to work unless I try it.

How do you cultivate such a distinctive voice?

Whenever I teach, students always ask: ‘How do you get your voice? How do you distil your voice?’ Honestly, you just have to sit with it and keep writing. It's not something you can decide on. It’s that recognisable quality to a writer’s work. It’s like my ability to recognise a James Salter sentence anywhere.

What are your long-term aspirations?

There are so many more books I want to write. I would love to be able to write books for the rest of my life. I would love to have these books find their readers, to reach the people who need them.

What would you tell your debut self?

When you're a debut, and when I was writing The Water Cure, I felt like I had one book and one chance. I actually think you have many more chances. We always have more time.

Sophie Mackintosh's Book Recs and Writing Advice

Last but not least, some bookish and writing questions. What is…

…the last book you recommended to a friend?

The Wax Child by Olga Ravn.

…the first book that made you cry?

All My Puny Sorrows by Miriam Toews.

…the book that made you fall in love with reading?

Emily of New Moon by Lucy Maud Montgomery.

…the book that shaped you into the person you are today?

The Magic Toyshop by Angela Carter.

…a book you wish you could read again for the first time?

In the Cut by Susanna Moore

…the most important piece of writing advice anyone ever gave you?

Improvement isn’t always linear. Often in writing, you get to a point where you're plateauing. Don’t be afraid of the plateau, because usually a plateau means you're going to have a breakthrough. Trust in the process, trust in the plateau. A breakthrough is coming.

…a piece of popular writing advice that everyone should ignore?

That writing should be torturous.

…one thing you would tell all new writers at the start of their journey?

Take your time and be kind to yourself. It's really easy not to look after yourself and to compare yourself to others. We can't write well if we're in a position where we feel scared or envious or like we're not good enough. Writing comes from a place of generosity with yourself.

PERMANENCE by Sophie Mackintosh is published in the UK by Hamish Hamilton (an imprint of Penguin Books Ltd), and is available to order now.